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just a second: a jump, little children fandom podcast

transcript: episode 4

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["When My Boy Walks Down the Street" by the Magnetic Fields plays briefly then fades out]

Anne: Hi, I'm Anne.

Melanie: And I'm Melanie

A: And you're listening to Just a Second: A Jump, Little Children Fandom Podcast.

M: Where the topical discussion is beyond belief.

A: Today we talked to Matt Bivins and it was quite a lengthy conversation. He covered a wide range of topics including olives! So if you'd like to know more about olives just listen to this podcast with Matt Bivins. But strap yourselves in because it's two hours long!

["When My Boy Walks Down the Street" fades back in then fades out]

A: Hello, Matt, I wanted to thank you, first of all, for offering to be on our podcast and for appearing with us today.

Matt: Absolutely.

A: We're very glad to have you on. It's been a week since those two shows recently and it seemed like everyone was having a good time. I think there was, you know everybody in the band seemed to be in a good mood and I know all the people in the audience were in a good mood. Do you feel that that was the case?

Matt: I think so. I think so for sure. We always love playing Chapel Hill and I think--so that's a given but I feel like the Columbia show was spirited because it almost didn't happen. [laughs]

A: Oh really?

Matt: Yeah, well...

Mel: Yeah, it was raining!

Matt: Raining right before...

A: Oh that's right, yeah!

Matt: ...and then rained immediately afterwards, yeah.

A: I thought it was rain or shine. So it wasn't?

Matt: Well, it was but.

A: Well I guess it's a moot point now cuz it did happen.

Matt: It happened! Yeah. It was soggy.

Mel: And it...

Matt: But it happened.

Mel: I thought it was really great that it rained right before y'all played and then cleared up!

Matt: Yeah.

Mel: and then it started raining almost immediately after y'all finished.

Matt: Yeah, it was...

A: Oh that's weird!

Matt: It was meant to be.

A: How did you manage that? [laughter]

Matt: Yeah, I had a conversation with the Big Guy [laughter]

A: "Look, could you do me a solid? Make it so we can [unintelligible] this festival."

Matt: [laughing] Yeah. Yeah, exactly. No, I don't know. I don't know why that happened. We really--there was much panic from Vance and much panic from I think apparently--we were exhausted because we had to drive right after the Chapel Hill show. It was a very, it was a lot of driving that weekend.

A: Right

Matt: But we, we were sort of staying at our friend Kelly's house and sort of sleeping and stuff and we would get these reports from Vance like, "I'm literally holding down the tarps in front of your equipment!" And, bless their hearts. Yeah, they were trying to keep our stuff not--well it's still, some of my things are still kind of drying out. [laughs]

A: oh wow!

Matt: Yeah. Yeah it was wet but we did it, so...all those sort of against the, against nature gigs are always good.

A: Yeah I actually--thinking about it I don't think I've seen you at a festival except for the first time I did which was in 1998 at the Big Day Out.

Matt: Yeah!

A: And that was, you know I think I only saw one or two songs as the set ended just after that I believe. But I guess apparently that was enough for me! But Melanie has [unintelligible crosstalk] [laughter] You don't what now?

Matt: That was it. That's all you need!

A: Yeah, I guess!

Matt: I like playing festivals. We didn't play a whole, we haven't played a whole enormous amount in our history but it always is, obviously, it's always good for meeting new people and making new fans and, so it's a good thing to do. And they also pay well, so. [laughs]

A: Yeah, I was figuring that strategically it would make a lot of sense because there are people coming who might not have seen you before, rather than people who are coming specifically to a club show for you, per se.

Matt: Right.

A: So it definitely made sense.

Matt: For sure. There's not a lot of, necessarily, walk-ups to a club, I don't think.

A: Right. Yeah, pretty much it seems like the clubs are gonna be people who already know the deal. And it's all well and good but maybe strategically it's, you gotta have a mix.

Matt: It's true.

A: So let's see, how did you feel about having it just be those two shows? Was that enough or were you like, "oh, I wish we had some more to do" just because it's an experience of you all together? Or...

Matt: Yes. That's a good question. I think that I prefer having a longer block, personally. This was an experiment and I think it wasn't a bad experiment but I think that for me in particular I feel like I do the most traveling to get to all of these gatherings. So, for me it was an enormous amount of time in the car. And I think that moving forward I would push for, you know, a longer string of shows. You know, it was just a...it was a good timing, good deal. There might have been more, there might have been, afterwards. I had to stop. I had to be back by the 7th of May so there might have been some other prior commitments for the other guys that we couldn't do more shows before. Yeah, so, you know. It's a strange thing kind of being a part-time touring band. You know strange like, yeah.

A: Yeah it seems a little odd I think to us as well because, let's see, the last time you were touring was December and now it's like well, we've got some dates in May but it's two dates. And I thought, "well I guess I better pick one and I think I'd rather go to the club show." So that's the one I ended up doing. But you sort of realize, "okay we've got a limited amount of dates here, we've gotta see what we're going to do" rather than you know, back in the day when would be like, "well we're just gonna drive hill and yon for a week." [laughs]

Matt: Right. Yeah, it's an interesting place to be because we can't and we don't really want to be on the road all the time, the way that we used to be. So you know in the past I guess there was--well, at the beginning there was pretty much non-stop touring. There were no seasons. And then finally we started getting down to maybe a spring tour and a fall tour and then a Christmas thing. You know, sort of a December string of shows. And that's still a lot! That's still like a ton. And I don't think that we could even make that happen with our schedules today but, yeah. We...so yeah I think we're still trying to feel it out, honestly. I think we're still trying to figure out what feels, what's the most comfortable, what's possible. You know, you don't want to keep it too long in between getting together cuz you don't want to start forgetting songs. [laughs] Which does definitely happen. But at this point also we don't want to be there too much and again we can't. We can't really. You know we've got, there are children and there are like mountain classes that Jonny takes. I mean it's, you know, all the things that I do. [laughs] All the multitude of disparate things that I do. But yeah, this was, I think that this was a nice thing. We are, you know I'm not allowed to say exactly when, but there will be another, there will be more get-togethers this year. We're working that out and we'll be announcing that soon so and I'm looking forward to that, sort of a larger block of time and doing some stuff. Yeah.

A: Good! Well, I was also thinking while you were saying that, it seems like you guys have more, this might be a loaded word, but more agency now because it's not like it's the label is making you go on a tour no matter what. You get to have a certain amount of choice and control. I mean, maybe not, it is still an unusual situation, but it's not like you have to do this or else.

Matt: Right. Right, and it's, I feel like it's an ongoing conversation you know. We don't have anybody that's telling us what to do or where to play or when to play which is really great. At the same time when you release an album and you're not on the road or you're not opening up for another band or you're not in the public eye selling that, then that's definitely...that's a different you know, that's it's own sort of set of issues right?

A: Right.

Matt: So I'm sure that there are people who would, that are in the industry that were, that are fighting for Sparrow and trying to make it happen that would love to see us play more. But yeah, it's sort of that trying to find that balance these days is kinda tough.

A: Yeah, it seems like a very, you know it's basically an unprecedented situation.

Matt: Yeah.

A: As well as when you look at the Patreon and for some reason whenever I say Patreon I feel like I'm saying it wrong cuz when I initially read it I thought it was pronounced a different way, but anyway. The Patreon has been really interesting. Do you have anything to expound on about that?

Matt: Yeah. Well it's, the Patreon thing was definitely an...it is an attempt to try to be a band that doesn't tour all the time and yet still have things to talk about and still try to remain creative and still try to remain in the public eye. Whether or not it works we're, you know, the verdict is still out but we, it was...yeah it was sort of an idea. I feel like a lot of bands are trying to utilize the internet in that way. Obviously the one that is brought up the most is Pomplamoose. One of the band members actually is a part of starting Patreon. A band that you know wanted to constantly create things, and they do a lot of covers but they write their own stuff, but not be a full-time touring band for whatever reason. Expense or family lives or other things that they want to do so the guitarist or the songwriter helped start this Patreon idea. I think it's really hard for people to understand though.

A: Yes, I agree.

Matt: I think that it's still such a very new concept I think. I think people are used to, they're getting used to crowd crowdfunding in general; a Kickstarter or Indiegogo, that's been around for a while. Patreon is such a different concept and I think it's a lot harder for people to wrap their minds around the idea of you know, supporting an artist through--I mean, yeah it sort of flips the concept a little bit. You're not paying for something. You're not specifically paying for an album or a tour or a piece of software. You're kind of helping this artist that you appreciate and want to continue helping them stay focused in that world of being able to create art. Because obviously if you're an artist that has plenty of you know, maybe family income or something that you don't use things like Patreon; you don't need that. You've got that freedom but if you're not in that situation and you're an artist that wants to be able to wake up and create and that be your job it's just, the United States in particular is just not really set up to make that an easy thing to do you know. So I support the concept of Patreon. I don't know that, I don't know how long it's going to take, if it'll ever work for people to sort of understand it.

A: Yeah, I definitely get the impression that some people don't really quite grasp it. It's not really supposed to be a one-to-one exchange of goods. It's not really like buying merch, it's more like a sponsorship.

Matt: Right. It's a sponsorship, right! And it's, I mean what do you guys think about it? It's gotta be, it's...you know, it's, I've personally gone through a lot of emotions about it and thoughts about it and I've written about it a bunch and I think we're still feeling it out. And I've made it very clear from the beginning that we don't know whether this is the thing to do or whether it's going to work. So yeah, it's a very...it's a very strange thing. It's fun and it's actually working which is [unintelligible]

A: Oh, I love it!

Matt: It's--we're actually creating things more in a time that we wouldn't be, right? So in 2017 I guess? Yeah, 2017 for example we just went on the road a couple times and then in in the times that we were not together there was nothing. There was no Jump, Little Children in our lives, right. And Patreon is the way to try to keep it in our lives at least. It's not currently, it's not a full-time income for any one of us but it does help a little bit be able to allow Jay, Evan, myself to write songs, to focus on that and yeah. But how do you sort of educate people in that way knowing that it's sort of a long game, trying to express that it is a long game. It's a way, it's a path forward rather than "you give me money from this I give you the product" that kind of thing.

A: Yeah, it's just, yeah, it's tricky to actually have a good way of explaining it because I know some people have been kind of upset by the concept.

Matt: Yeah.

A: On the other hand, I love it and I think it's great. So I'm trying to do whatever I can with it.

Matt: 'Preciate it.

A: But it is difficult to say, yeah this is not really so much like a PledgeMusic where here's a defined product that we're going to end with. It's more like a, you know like we said, a sponsorship.

Matt: Right. What do you think, Melanie?

Mel: I just basically look at it as well I'm not buying tickets to their shows every month so I'm going to just put that money towards the Patreon.

A: Pretty much, yeah.

Matt: Yeah, I mean that's kind of what, I mean I know that on paper, and I'm not talking just about us, but any sort of...any person that is being, that is using this platform. But if you are talking about a band then yes. I can see like if you look at it one way that it's like wow, that's a lot of money that I'm putting down and I don't really know what it's going towards. I don't really understand, you know, what it means. [laughs] But I think that that's sort of another way to look at it. Like what if you were a fan of the band 10, 15 years ago. What would you have spent on any band that you liked? That you would buy an album, you would go, you'd buy, you go out and you would you know spend, I don't know, buy some drinks and go see a few shows. I personally don't know how much that that amount would come out too and I think that it's important for anyone using Patreon to try to figure out that comfort zone. And I don't know that we've done it yet but that's sort of a way to think of it and for us that's what we're hoping it'll eventually become in that way it does equate our being on the road. I have gotten, we've definitely gotten some feedback from people saying, "well you want us to support you in this way and then when you go on the road there's that added expense" and I understand that, I really do, but the Patreon allows us to go on the road too. I mean it's, I don't know, I mean it's, yeah. I support it, I think it's a very cool thing. Of course I'm a little conflicted because, you know, I don't know personally whether I would be able to support a band that I really like. So I get it, I get both sides of what people are saying. But I hope that we find a nice comfortable zone to be in, where we are working the proper amount, we are in your hearts and minds the proper amount, you are paying the proper amount that's comfortable, that allows us and you feel a part of everything. Which is what Patreon is supposed to be as well is that community and being a part of things, feeling like you are a part of things which is another tough thing for people to understand is how much fans affect a band's creative output and choices and it's a lot. It's a lot.

A: Well, it looks like Melanie actually accidentally dropped off the call so I'm glad that I was recording. [laughter] But I'm trying to get it back in. But yeah, I think it's a really interesting concept. I just happened to be, just happened to have gotten a raise just before this whole campaign was announced so I was able to...

Matt: Congrats.

A: Thank you. To put my money toward that without missing it from my budget so it's not something that disrupts me at all so I'm trying to do what I can. But I want it to be something that that everyone enjoys, you know, particularly you guys where it's something that you think is a bonus that's fun, that you can maybe do slightly different things for that you might not have done otherwise without feeling like, oh we've--Without it being a source of stress.

Matt: Right. I'm not sure that we're there yet, to be honest, but I mean, man, I've loved recording with Jay, coming up with questions for Jay, Cool Demo stuff. I love doing the Biv Bros Show and I have loved learning how to create videos and it's a lot. Like it's, I had zero experience with it before and I'm sort of this massive crash course on lighting in film and cameras and stuff but that's who I am though; that's what I do anyway so, I just go insane for a while to learn something new and then try to fit it into my comfort zone. But yeah, it's still a little stressful at this point, I think, trying to see where it fits but I think we're getting there. I think we're going to get there for sure.

A: Yeah, I've really enjoyed Cool Demo, which I think I've made fairly clear. But I think that's a great concept and to have so many episodes per song, you know so everybody has a turn, was a really good idea. So I don't even know where to start with that! [laughs]

Matt: I mean Cool Demo is just fantastic! It's just I think, I really think that, I mean not that I doubted that Jay would be a good podcaster.

A: Yeah!

Matt: Because of his skills as a producer, to be able and edit and, you know, that, I mean talking to a microphone, talking with other people, you know, being honest and forthright and coming up with interesting topics. Like that is a skill set that he did not have before this but the nice thing about the thing that he did have is that ease with the technology and the setup and the editing so. And boy it sure does sound good. And [unintelligible] really knocking out of the park.

A: It does. And it's a lot of fun to listen to. Like I don't know anything, for example, I don't know anything about drumming but listening to Evan talk about all these technical terms about drumming how he did this and that, I have no idea what he's talking about but it's fascinating! And there's a lot of stuff that, in the like...some things in the track that I didn't even notice because they're so layered in. But when they're separated out and everyone's talking about "oh I did this for such and such" and it's not something I would have noticed otherwise. So again, I don't really know that much about music so I can only sort of follow along generally. But it's fascinating to have that laid out and for the people who maybe do know a little more than me, for them to be like, "oh ok" so I think that, I just think it's really cool to have done that.

Matt: It's cool that you say that because I feel like Jay is really striking a balance, a really nice balance between bits that people don't have to have any experience with to understand. So if you come to the--I'm sorry, I keep calling it pod--the audio documentary, you know, you come to the podcast and you want to know more about the five members of the band you're certainly getting that. You're getting old stories and really getting the core of how we talk to each other, how we--the history that we have with each other; you're really getting that on a very intimate level so that might be interesting to people.

A: Yeah! I love that too. I love the stories as well.

Matt: Right! Yeah, and that just comes naturally. So he's keeping a good bit of that in there and he's also coming at it with a very technical side so people who aren't cellists or drummers might learn some things. And then there's like a little bit of this education that I feel that comes out as well. Not necessarily in every episode but I think that over the course of a year you're going to get a lot of things and I really, what we all hope is that he'll branch out you know. I think I would love to, I'd love for him to you know do an episode with Cary Ann and Michael and certainly Josh Kaler and his newish band Hula Hi-Fi and, you know, Owen Beverly. You know, people that he could listen to the album and kind of do a very similar thing cuz I think he's got the skills for it. It's really, really interesting. It's different from something like, it's similar but different, something like Song Exploder because that's something that I kind of brought to the table, you know, said have you heard of this? And he's like no I haven't heard of this. And I don't even know whether he ended up listening to much of it, but I love how he's taken a concept, that sort of concept but added this very personal touch to it. Because Song Exploder is really fascinating but it's very much focused on the artist and you break down songs and artists and it's really great but I love the relationship element that Jay would have with these other artists including us, you know, to be able to talk about...

A: I was going to say I like the fact that you know I was kind of expecting it to be very a technical breakdown full stop of just everyone's part of the song. And it turned out of course it includes not only random trivia but these stories and these callbacks to things that happened a long time ago, things we might remember, things we might not know about so I like it. It's a pretty broad variety of things and it's not just breakdown of the technical details.

Matt: Right.

A: Although I enjoy that as well, so there's just a lot. And I also enjoy the fact that, I think it's really funny Jay doesn't want so much to answer questions about the lyrics. Like "what does so-and-so mean?" He doesn't really want...

Matt: Right.

A: ...I don't think he really wants [laughs]

Matt: I don't think a lot of musicians do, or if they do...

A: That's usually our first go-to though. We're like, "what does so-and-so mean?"

Matt: Yeah, but it, I mean the disclaimer, I mean it's a cliche but it really is. It's honestly true that if anything that you are hearing, any literature that you're trying to analyze is a moment in time.

A: Right!

Matt: It doesn't even--so, so yes, it is written for a very specific thing. All the silly lyrics that I've written are about a specific person, a specific moment but then once it's out there in the world it really, you really do want it to be open to interpretation. You don't want to lock it down.

A: Different perspectives.

Matt: You don't want to be telling about--right! See I don't think so, I think you want...

A: Death of the author! [laughs]

Matt: Well, yeah! I mean honestly. But it's, because that is, I think that's where a song lives and breathes and means something to someone. So we watched the second episode of this Netflix series The Society and you know, I, the verdict is still out on that, on the show itself but the placement of the song "Cathedrals" in the show based on what was happening did not mean any, did not make any sense to me, personally.

A: So it wasn't just me! Yeah! [laughs]

Matt: But it made sense--no, no, no, well because you know the song though. You feel the song. You've probably heard little bits and pieces about what it might be about. But isn't it interesting how the sound designer for that show said, "well this song means this to me right now."

A: Apparently.

Matt: Because it's not like it was way in the background, right?

A: Yeah, it wasn't.

Matt: It was meant to be heard. So they took those lyrics to mean something that allowed her to walk through a grocery store, have like a jealous moment and walk out into the street, you know, that's what the song meant to him or her. So, I don't know. I feel like that's interesting though to me. I feel like that, well "B-13" is a perfect example, right? "B-13" is a song Evan wrote and I'm sure that it was about a relationship issue or a sadness in that or a, just again, a moment in time. That meaning for the song, the relationship to the song changed drastically for all of us when it was sung at my grandmother's funeral. I mean completely changed the concept of the song.

A: Right!

Matt: It was no longer about, for me, it was no longer about you know a relationship with, a romantic relationship. It was about our grandmother. And it fit so well. But it wasn't written about Kiki though.

A: I didn't know that! I don't know how I didn't know that.

Matt: And for Jay, Jay flew down with us and we all sang it together.

A: Wow!

Matt: And what I'm sorry?

A: I was saying I didn't know that! I thought it was written about her. I don't know why I didn't know that.

Matt: No. No, it, she was in perfect health when the song was written so it definitely wasn't written about Kiki. There are songs, you know there's a song like "Midnight" that was written about our dad so that has a little bit more of meaning there. But again I feel like, yeah.

A: That's more literal. Right, ok.

Matt: Yeah. But see there's another case, right? There's, I mean the perfect example is "Born in the USA" or...

A: oh, yeah.

Matt: ...where it's not supposed to be a song about, you know...

A: Or like they're using songs about heroin for a commercial for a cruise line [laughter]

Matt: Well, ok

A: Or not that egregious. Or not that bad. [laughter]

Matt: So, I mean parts of that could probably apply, but yes in general, yeah. I mean it's, I like that though. I really do. The very few songs that I've written it feels like that so I definitely know where Jay's comes from. That desire to let it go and to let other people have it. I think otherwise you are, you're going to get into trouble cuz you're going to--I mean if you're an artist and you release something, period, you don't have to, right? You don't have to, there are songs that have been written by this band that no one has heard, you know. There are songs that I've written that no one has heard. And that's your choice but once you do release it you know. You know you're giving up.

A: Right.

Matt: You know you're giving it up. So you have to. You have to sort of "death of the author" like you said.

A: I actually liked once he was basically, when he basically made that clear. I was like "okay well that makes sense. Now we can sort of not worry about what specifically does so-and-so mean?" Well I think Melanie's back on, are you?

Mel: Yeah. Yeah.

A: Okay.

Mel: Yeah, I'm here.

Matt: Hi!

A: I don't want to be the only one, I don't want to seem like I'm talking over Melanie. [laughs]

Mel: It's ok. [laughs]

A: It's like that time we were talking to Jay and Jay said something and Melanie hadn't said anything until she just goes YES!

Mel: YES! And that was all. [laughs]

A: We both looked at her like what the hell [laughter] That was when, that was actually when he said something about possibly bringing Rosebud back together. Then she goes, "yes!"

Matt: Yeah I would love to see that.

A: Yeah, well I think we would [crosstalk]

Matt: I would love to see Rosebud.

A: Rosebud or The Dole or whatever all else or Cabaret Kiki.

Matt: Yeah.

A: I mean we don't know of course what the future's going to hold. Now there's something I did want to ask you. You said in a journal once that you were probably, you were apparently the last person to agree to--I'm probably putting this weirdly--but the last person to agree to rejoining and starting to work as a band again. Do I have that correct?

Matt: Yeah. You do.

A: So I think, yeah I think you had said that you were the most, you were already used to you know, how your life was at the time and you were reluctant to do that. I'm sure that was, basically I think I'm asking looking back at that you feel that was the right mindset at the time and now I don't know, has that changed for you?

Matt: In, well yes, obviously. It's, I mean it's, or else I wouldn't have gone past 2015 but I don't think that it was an incorrect mindset to be in. I don't regret feeling those feelings. I really did, I really did feel that it was a book, a chapter in a book of my life that I was very happy with being closed. Not, meaning like it felt, that last Dock Street show just felt like the perfect ending. If there was going to be an ending that was it. Boom.

A: Right.

Matt: And so opening that up again was very stressful to me. Because what if you guys weren't there. What if you didn't care. What if I spent all this energy trying to pull this thing back into my life with all the joy and the baggage and the stress and the excitement and it didn't work and it didn't feel right? I just didn't you know, you want to protect yourself of course as a human being and I guess as an artist too. But yeah, for sure. I don't regret feeling that way. I just, it wasn't that I kept saying "no, no, no" it was more that I took...

A: Took a long time. Ok.

Matt: I definitely took the longest time. Yeah, I mean other members were on board lickety split and I was like I really, really have to you know, meditate on this and figure out how that felt. I didn't, I wasn't comfortable with the concept of a 40-something dude you know rapping about sex. [laughter] You know? I just thought that was just kind of cheesy to revisit those things and I had to, you know, I knew that I couldn't not do the songs but at the same time and I had to figure out how they applied to my life now.

A: Well that...

Matt: So...

A: Cuz that reminds me of something else I was going to mention. So, given that you've said that I'm kind of surprised by that because I would not be able to tell from that because you're so comfortable on stage, now, probably more than I think you ever were before. You're super comfortable, you look like you're completely confident about it. So if you're doing a lot of acting there, you know, good job! [laughter]

Matt: Thank you, thank you.

A: You're doing really really well.

Matt: Well, yeah I mean I'm really grateful for the the new songs coming together because it is definitely, those are thoughts and feelings and words that I would use now in my life as an artist, as a, you know, as a 40-something. But yeah, it's, I think, that's funny that you picked up on that because I feel, I pretty much after the band I became an actor right.

A: Right.

Matt: That's kind of, those were my main stage experiences and kind of culminated in getting to work with my mother at Barter Theater, the state theater in Virginia, about 6 years ago. And I really haven't done a whole lot of acting since because Barter is such a dream world for actors. You get a weekly paycheck and you never have to audition and anyway. So I haven't done a ton of acting after that, especially when Jump came back, but I did, I do know what you're talking about. There is, the confidence that I feel now comes from a kind of ability to be more, hmm. To be both more me and more comfortable in who I am as a human being. And that comes with age and wisdom and you know making choices in your life. But also the tools that I've learned as an actor over the years as how to engage with an audience, how to use a stage and find your light and speak and properly and be in the moment. Honestly that's the biggest thing, being in the moment. So many things that I've worked on in the band's hiatus had to do with this understanding that whether or not ADHD exists, whether it's a fad or if it's just, you know, a misdiagnosis or something; it's something that I really, I needed to understand myself. How, what focus means to me, what attention means to me and what being in the moment means. And so, I'm glad that I look comfortable on stage because I feel it. I feel it so much more than I ever did in the 90s and early 2000s.

A: That is really interesting because I've also been doing sort of a in the moment type deal. Really ever since, this will sound silly but, you know Ward with his whole thing with Buddhism. I ended up looking into Buddhism because of Ward and looking up, you know, interest in meditation, mindfulness, impermanence and things like that.

Matt: Yeah.

A: And we also, when I was talking to Jay in December we were talking about things like, I said something about being anxiety, something about being anxious, about anxiety and he said something about, "well if I feel anxious I just remember that we're all going to die." [laughter] Something like that. Definitely can't argue with that! [laughter]

Matt: Jay's started this thing whenever we sit down, he's like "I wonder how long it's going to take for me to talk about someone dying or something dying."

A: Oh my god. [laughs]

Matt: And then without fail he'll start talking about death and some cosmic level. He's yeah there it is, there it is. We discovered in the recent podcast why he feels that way cuz he's got something in his brain that's different.

A: Yeah!

Matt: So yeah...

A: And I wanted to mention too, you know, Kristin Hersh, I happened to read something about her the other day. She had a, I don't know if this is like common knowledge about Kristin Hersh, but she had, she was in a serious car accident that caused brain damage. And she said that subsequently she would hear, she would like experience music and experience, but I don't know. I don't know if it was she heard music and she wrote it down but she was having effects from this car accident that sort of translated to this you know, as music that she created. She's sort of a interesting gal. I was like ok, well that's interesting to know!

Matt: Wow!

A: This is literally brain damage that's causing her to hear music in her head and write it down!

Matt: Interesting. Wow.

A: But yeah, that's so funny that Jay's brain [unintelligible]

Matt: Yeah.

A: But you know it's a thing that you, you know, I think that's part of us all aging also. We're like "oh no, we're old!" [laughter]

Matt: Yeah, I mean whether or not, yeah exactly. You know I really don't like, I've got friends and family members that talk about being old all the time and you know I don't like doing that because...

A:Yeah I don't really like it...

Matt: I feel, I just don't like it. I don't like it, no, no, I mean no. [laughter] I fully accept the fact that I'm getting older. I really do. But I think there's a difference between understanding that you're getting older and saying "I'm old" which is a defeatist--I mean just, I have plenty of negativity running through my brain all times. I don't need to add to it by kind of conjuring up the idea of being old. I'm not ashamed of being you know, my age. And I hope that won't change. And I...

A: Well, you don't look your age if that helps! You don't look your age.

Matt: It does help, it does [laughs] it helps.

A: You're aging backward! [laughs] You're aging backward.

Matt: It definitely helps. But I think that really is, you know you always hear the cliche that it's a mindset. I really don't, you know, if I'm in a like a focused sort of scientific experiment as to whether or not that works it seems to be working for me. I just, I want it to continue working. [laughs] Just a mindset.

A: Just having the mindset of "oh well I'm not gonna think about it too much"?

Matt: Well, no, just having the mindset [laughs] having the mindset that you can grow older and accept all the joys and the struggles with that. Which there are both. There are joy and there are struggles but how long can you hold onto the hopelessness. With, you know, how long can you hold onto, sorry, hold off on the hopelessness like that you see in so many people that hit a certain age and there's just something that some people go through and it's--I am not saying that I won't go through that but I want to be aware. I want to be self-aware and I want to kind of try to be positive about it as long as I humanly can. And I, you know, I spent some time with this guy in Chicago who was almost 70 and he, you know, we just became sort of nerd friends and in Chicago and he, I mean he was into VR, and he was, he'd done all these incredible things in his life. He was like helped start CBS Radio here in Chicago. He was on the board of Burning Man [laughs] he, so he went and he did like massive amounts of drugs every year [laughter] in the desert and not that I'm necessarily into that but just his mind never--I mean he was sick too. I mean he had, you know, fucked-up--I'm allowed to say fucked-up on this podcast? [laughs] You know, fucked-up leg, he had leg issues. He had hip things and the normal things that happen. He had to walk with a cane but his mind was so positive. And when Trump won--and I promise I won't get into politics right now--but when Trump won and I was so depressed about it he was like "dude, it's going to be okay, it really will. I mean I survived Nixon. That was horrible and we're all gonna survive this." Unfortunately he did not. He passed away cuz he was sick. He was a sick man. But man until the very end and I, you know, unfortunately Facebook is now the way that you find out when people die which is so horrific.

A: This is so true.

Matt: It's horrific. But when I found out that he had passed away I saw, he'd always talked about all these friends that he had. He would introduce me to all these people in the industry and people all around Chicago and I was like, "you look like a hobo! I can't believe that you know these people" but he did! He knew and the love that just came from all corners of this Earth, it was just super inspiring. I want that, I want that. I want to be that guy. I wanna do that. I want to, I wanna hold on to a youthful spirit.

A: I think you can! But talking about the, you know, the mentality of getting older, I'm not excited about the infirmities...

Matt: Right!

A: and the illness and decrepitude and whatever but there's something about knowing that okay we've got a time limit or anything could happen any day that sort of puts you in an attitude of mindfulness and living in the moment as much as possible. Or like Jay said someone told him, "don't go on hiatus for another 10 years!" And Jay's like "we don't have another 10 years!" [laughter]

Matt: Right

A: Which made me laugh cuz it's like, you know, strike now while the iron is hot and do what it is that you want to do. And I sort of feel like that about the Trump years also because, you know, I'm not really very optimistic about the Trump years myself but it does sort of make you realize, ok, the rubber is meeting the road. You know, here's, and it's sort of ironic cuz you know, I don't really do anything. I'm not, I don't have like these big plans to do stuff but it's, it is in the mentality where it's like alright, we don't have a lot of time to dawdle and mess around here.

Matt: Right.

A: Which in it's way is a kind of positive.

Matt: I think so! I really do. And I think a big part of making Sparrow is that mindset is...

A: yes

Matt: you know, we have a government, we have a president that could currently sounds like he's trying to start a war with China like every other day. You just have no idea. And so I got to a point my first reaction was horror and I, you know, depression and tears and

A: Yeah! Exactly.

Matt: And I really, hopelessness, and then I just, you know, and I would get on Facebook and I'd rail and rail and then I got to the point where when you see the landscape of what's happening you have to say all right I'm on the ground, I have to get up much, much higher and see the big picture here. Because look at what, look at the Me Too movement. That would not, chances are that would not happen the way it happened if it weren't for Trump. I don't like that this country is divided the way it is. I don't know how we're going to get it back together again, I really don't. And maybe we won't but I stopped fighting the things I realize I had no power over.

A: Me too.

Matt: And I said, well I am going to, I'm gonna to create things, I'm going to write music, I'm going to play music, I'm going to be with creative people. I'm going to start a company that provides accessibility to people with disabilities. I'm going to do the things, I'm not going to get a day job until I absolutely have to because I don't, I do feel that anxiety of well, God, what if there's a war, nuclear war tomorrow. You know, could happen.

A: Yeah! Yeah.

Matt: It truly could happen so I gotta get some shit done, you know.

A: So yeah I think we are kind of on the same page in that regard.

Matt: Yeah. For sure.

Mel: Yeah, it's like I tell my kids when Trump won I told them you know what we can do right now, what we have control over right now is to put good things into the world as much as we can.

Matt: Yeah. Exactly.

A: It does focus you. [laughs]

Matt: It does! It does! You know, I, yeah, I'm way more focused than I was and I could not love a president more than Obama if I tried. There's no, I don't know if I'll ever, if we'll ever experienced that love for a political leader that I had for him. But yeah I was not as focused in his presidency for sure.

A: You know, not to get completely heavy here but I, before I forgot I did want to mention you know I've actually realized after talking with Melanie that she knows a lot more about this than I do. So I sort of might direct this toward her but I did tell you, Matt, that I was going to ask cuz I was curious what your on-stage performance influences are.

Matt: Mmhmm.

A: Cuz I think a lot of that, of course, is you. But I suspect there's maybe a little bit of influence there just because of the iconic influences that, you know, might be in there. So I wanted to see what you said because I realized I don't know enough about this to, I don't know enough about it to make an educated statement.

Matt: Right. Oh, absolutely I, gosh, so many. So many people. Growing up, of course, and I'm going to talk strictly performance not even necessary musically though it kind of all ties together but Michael Stipe.

A: Yeah.

Matt: You know growing up and I was just talking to Lindsay the other day about how you know growing up and I loved, I wasn't, I really didn't listen to a ton of music. I didn't really listen. I listened to classical music growing up and I didn't listen to a ton of pop music. But I didn't mind 80s pop music when I was little. You know, I didn't, I thought it was actually a pretty good time and it sounded good to me and I, so I didn't need anything. But once you get into high school and you, there was, you know there was Greensboro College which was you know 20 mile, 20-30 miles from Winston-Salem. They had a radio station, a college radio station 90.7 and Jay's sister Cary and I would, we'd skip school assemblies with some other people. We thought we were super punk. We weren't really very punk, but we would, you would have to get up on a hill at Reynolds and you would listen to this music and it was mind-blowing. And this conversation started the other day because they were planning Violent Femmes, you know the "Blister in the Sun."

A: Yeah.

Matt: And Lindsay starts singing it and I was like, "how do you know that song?" And she said well, it's from a movie. It's from my, they had a episode of My So-Called Life where, and so she learned that song from there. And I said "I cannot express to you how weird this stuff was to us."

A: Yeah!

Matt: Number one, it was not mainstream in any way. Of course now it's classic rock, like hardcore classic rock, but it was, I mean the sound of it was so bad. I mean the Violent Femmes sounded so bad and he really couldn't sing. And then you've got Michael Stipe who also kind of couldn't sing and it was just, you didn't know what he was saying but it was just magical. And the fact that they had, they were Southerners, R.E.M at least, Southerners and they had recorded you know Murmur in Winston-Salem. And we were just, they were ours. And so the next level of that of course was, you know, seeing them perform. And like seeing him be completely comfortable with his femininity and on stage and his sort of mysterious thing. You know, there were so many Pete Townshend moves still around. And I like a little Pete Townshend move here and there but Stipe didn't apply, he didn't really, he didn't play an instrument so he just kind of did all these weird things! So it was David Byrne and it was Michael Stipe and then it became Bono, a lot of Bono. And I watched...

A: Yeah. That's what I thought! That's what I thought.

Matt: For sure. I watched, before I was a YouTube fan from the start but it was the video. I don't even remember what the video was called but someone had let me borrow a VHS copy of the, I want to say the Zooropa tour. Massive, the massive tour. It could've been Achtung Baby or the combination cuz they kind bled into each other. But it's when [laughs] when Bono, so you do the whole show and Bono's just, he's truly got quote-unquote it. He's got magic. I've seen him live now in massive stadiums and you feel it very, this, even if I haven't been into a U2 album in years, sonically, but, going to a show still he was on crutches and I was just like, I could feel his power? But even in this, through this video they do the showing and at the end there's like for the encore he's backstage and he's putting on makeup to be this, become this character, I think it's called Mephistopheles or some sort of devil character. And a full costume change and I just wept. I just like burst into tears for, I just couldn't believe that somebody who's that famous could do something like that. And it changed my stage presence overnight. Cuz like, oh my God I could do that. I could do some of that right? And then of course, Bowie. You know you get into all these different things. Morrissey, yes, you know. Yeah, so many. So many of those but those are the big ones really. Those are the big guys. I love Radiohead, my favorite band. And they are incredible live but seeing them it's, it was a very, it was incredible when I saw them for the first time. But Thom Yorke wasn't, he wasn't what I was looking for. I needed that drama. I needed the theater. I needed the, you know, [laughs] costume change, the makeup. I needed that kind of mystery and character playing honestly that all these other guys did.

A: Yeah that's not very Thom Yorke. [laughs]

Matt: No, not very Thom Yorke, no.

A: That's interesting. Melanie, I think Melanie had an idea of somebody that you reminded her of but I can't remember who it was. Melanie?

Mel: Well, not in terms of stage presence but in terms of style.

A: Oh yeah?

Mel: Yeah. Just...

A: Who was it?

Mel: It was David Johansen from the New York Dolls.

Matt: Oh yeah! Abso-fucking-lutely. Absolutely!

A: Yes.

Matt: And I'll tell you like meeting, I got to meet him...

Mel: No! [laughs]

Matt: a few times. Well, a few times because my ex-girlfriend worked at, it's gone now, but one of the more famous little punk/blues/bars in the West Village. And David Johansen was there all the time. He would just hang out.

Mel: Oh wow.

Matt: So, oh my god, yeah I mean so much that, his ability to of course New York Dolls and then Buster Poindexter realizing that was the same guy.

Mel: Yeah!

Matt: And then he...

A: It is?

Matt: When I would see him live--yeah, oh yeah, that's, it's beautiful. I mean and then to see him as an actor in a few movies and then...

A: Oh my god. I didn't know this. I'm sorry [laughs]

Matt: No, I know! That's what I loved! Oh, absolutely! You hit it right on the nail, Melanie. I forgot about him. But yeah and then to get to meet him and he was in this Blues thing so he was this Blues character. He was using his own name but it was, oh man, he's so good on stage too. It's just, yeah absolutely. Absolutely. That kind of concept of being able to do it all. To be able to act and to take on these personas and yeah, sure. All of that.

A: Yeah, which I guess is kind of reflected in the way that you can, I think Jay had mentioned, you know, you're introduced to a new instrument and then you have a certain amount of time to learn it and then you know you're switching between different instruments.

Matt: Right [laughs]

A: And I think that's got to be related also to an adeptness born of dealing with ADHD, am I correct?

Matt: It is. Oh it is. And it's been important to me, yeah it's important, it has been very important for me to understand that and to accept it. And to know that I'm going to be a jack of all trades, master of none but that...

A: Aw, you're a master of all of them, Matt. You're a master of all.

Matt: I'm not though. I mean I'm not trying to be hard on myself. I kind of have to because I am hard enough on myself about that, that I hit a wall of experience. I hit a wall of my own ability to focus and become super proficient on something like where Evan got all of the focus and so he can become...

A: Oh, ok.

Matt: ...very, very proficient in the things that he picks up. But I'm able to see a big picture where Ev has a much harder time seeing the big picture of something. And I can talk about everything. I can talk about everything! I really am fascinated by everything. And if somebody has something to talk about that I don't know about I'm ready to learn instantly. Like I'm never bored. I'm never going to be bored and I love that. I love that, I love, I just have to, yeah, I just have to accept you are who you are and you're just going to get a lot of things done and you're going to have your hand in a lot of different things and you're going to always, always try to pick up a new instrument or do a new something or trying to teach yourself how to edit videos or you know all these, I'm just never gonna stop. So I just gotta be okay with that, be excited about it.

A: Well it seems like you are so.

Matt: I am! I am. Yeah.

A: I guess that's one of the positive things about being older is you understand yourself a bit better and you're like, "oh ok, I see. I see what I'm doing. This is how I am!" [laughs]

Matt: For sure. For sure. Yeah absolutely. Like, again just the [laughs] the ADHD, when I read a book for the first time about it and I didn't know anything about it, I was reading this describing me. All the things that I thought were just, all these things that I thought were just me, alone, and I just dropped a book in shock and went "oh wow, okay great! That's fine. That's, I know now."

A: Right.

Matt: It's fine. It helps a lot.

A: Right, and you know I was watching that documentary a couple months ago.

Matt: Yeah!

A: And I recommended it to you with the guy that had the ADHD shirt that looked like the AC/DC logo [laughter] And that was interesting. My mother insists that I don't have ADHD or anything about it but you know, I wonder sometimes. You know we all have our little neurological quirks, if you will. Sometimes we're hyper-focused on something. Sometimes we have difficulty focusing on things, so it's--that's another thing that you all have caused me to learn about is stuff like that. So. [laughs]

Matt: Yeah.

A: We're just learning all the time from you people.

Matt: Well, I mean nothing makes me happier than that. You know, I've said before I'm sure that we're not the band that got into rock and roll for sex and drugs. And so the times have been, that have meant the most to me are times when people have said "I am now a blank because I saw that you guys could do it" or "I was inspired to do this because I saw you guys doing this" or I'm a, you know, our friend Amy Cox absolutely went into music because, I mean not just us, but because she was so involved with bands. And I mean dude nothing, nothing feels better than that. Nothing. No music accolade is more inspiring to me than that. Like it it kind of helps me be Inspired when people come up and say, you know, say anything that you just can't, you just you can't believe and it's so humbling and it's so wonderful. It's just, it's the reason to do this, you know. It's the reason to stay in this and to have this be a part of my life. Just, if I'm doing anything to inspire, I mean, god like they're closing music classes right and left. You don't, you can't go to school and learn recorder [laughs] which is how I got started when you're in fifth grade or whatever. You know you're just, you got to find these inspirations elsewhere. You gotta hear from people that, no, you don't have to be a full-time musician but you should pick it up! You should. There's no reason not to, there's not. There's no--and it gives you so much to be able to do, to struggle and try to learn things that is not important, right? I mean, music is not actually important. It's not going to necessarily put food on your table. It's not going to solve the world's problems. It's not going to balance your budget or anything. It's a skill that's beautiful and also unnecessary and I think that's when people say that they, they're inspired to do unnecessary things because of us I just, nothing could make me happier.

A: What if the unnecessary is necessary though?

Matt: It is, it is. It is but you know what I'm saying too.

A: Oh yeah, I know. I know what you're saying, yeah.

Matt: To survive, right. Yeah, absolutely.

A: It's not on the hierarchy of needs necessarily, I forget what the hierarchy of needs is.

Matt: No, but you know...

A: It's still important to us.

Matt: It is. And I, know you, as I said before I'm not...

A: Quit being self-deprecating.

Matt: No. [laughter] No I'm not. I'm actually not. I was going to say that I am, I know there's a lot of crappy, crappy things on the Internet. There's a lot of crappy things on YouTube. And a lot of people have been very angry at the fact that YouTube opened up a world where anybody with any kind of quality camera can get out there, but to me I think it's beautiful. I really, all of it in its ugliness and you know low quality or super high quality and care. I just, I couldn't do that when I was little, I couldn't do that. And it's another art form that people want to do, that kids want to do. Like they want to be YouTube celebrities which means they want to be, they want to create things.

A: You know that actually reminds me...

Matt: And things that don't...no, go ahead.

A: No, I was just gonna say this was all reminding me of Joseph Gordon-Levitt has a project called HitRecord.

Matt: Yeah.

A: That actually does this, that I was involved with for a little while. Like I was on their TV show for a little while. I was almost in one of their live appearances.

Matt: Oh?

A: Where he brings together artists from around the world to create a final product. Now it doesn't really go that well.

Matt: Okay [laughs]

A: In the end because it's very much more theoretical than practically possible. But, that said, I might be being a little harsh there because they have put out a number of books. I am in one of the books.

Matt: Cool.

A: And a TV show and an album so that's a really interesting concept of what he's doing is saying, "well you play the saxophone part for this song" and record the saxophone part and the mixer will add it and you know we'll have a finished product that maybe 20 people have worked on from around the world!

Matt: Yeah!

A: That's only possible with the internet. Yeah, so I admire him for doing that and starting something like that because it's a very unique concept. And that's the internet and the internet has also, of course, allowed us as fans to communicate with each other. Cuz as you were talking earlier I was thinking it's not just about, you know, we're all doing things and creating things. We're also feeling things and we're relating to each other as we're feeling these things, whether we're at a show or if we're inspired by hearing the music. We're having that bond and we can only really you know, people from different states are talking to each other, we meet each other in person and that's because of the internet!

Matt: Yeah. For sure.

A: So that's been real interesting cuz I don't think that would have been possible, something like that would not have been possible before the internet except for things like zines or mailing mix tapes to each other. It's just not the same.

Matt: No, it's not the same and I now know that the reason that we came back in 2015 and people came to our shows is because we accepted the internet before a lot of people did. And people that, the people that we connected to in those early, early, early days are still out there and they were always out there. You guys were out there. And we had built this community. I'm not trying to sound cheesy when I keep using that. It really is a community...

A: Oh yes!

Matt: ...that we were able to create and I think we were able to create it because there was so much room back then. And I'm not saying you can't do it again obviously they're, you could absolutely do it again but in different ways but it is harder, a little bit. But man no, of course like the fact that the fans were still there after 10 years is mind blowing to me. And I've learned a lot about the internet that time we announce the shows. I was like, oh my God this is, this really is incredible. But no I mean, I wouldn't know my wife without the internet. I wouldn't have built this relationship with her. I'm a big fan. [laughter]

A: Yay the internet.

Matt: Yay, internet! [laughs] Yeah.

A: Well it looks like...

Matt: Oh, yeah.

A: I was just gonna say looks like we're up on our hour. I don't know what everyone's time looks like. I don't have any time limits but I don't know what everyone's time looks like.

Matt: I'm doing okay, I'm doing okay. Yeah, if you have other things to discuss.

A: Oh, I will have other things to discuss with you. [laughter]

Mel: We have a actual list of questions and things to ask.

A: Yeah, we have a list.

Matt: Oh! Alright, yeah!

A: And we've hit about half the things

Matt: Ok, well let's fire through a few more.

A: Well this was really more of a mention but I want, congratulations to everyone, if you would pass it on for me. No, just kidding. In general with the Hand on My Heartache song award.

Matt: Yeah!

A: Cuz that's pretty amazing.

Matt: Thanks, yeah.

A: At first what I thought had happened was, it was the people's vote thing. I was a little confused at first then I realized no, ok it's not that one. So.

Matt: No, I guess it's Tom Waits.

A: Yes, I was like, oh I see now, ok, I understand what's happened. So that's really cool!

Matt: Yeah, it is. It really is. I think Jay, I mean Jay was very, he was very cool, chill about it but I think it really meant a lot to him of course. And I hope that yeah [laughs] He was like, "wow, gosh, I yeah, I write I guess I write songs!" [laughter] like yes, of course dude, of course you write songs! Yeah, it's very cool. Very cool.

A: And then also you had Anna Camp, the actress Anna Camp mentioned you guys on her Instagram story. That was...

Matt: Yeah. Yes!

A: Now, she's from the Carolinas?

Matt: She is. I had to look some of these things up. I actually was a fan. I wasn't lying when I wrote her instantly and said, "Anna Camp! Oh my gosh you are so sweet. We are also from the, you know, the Carolinas. We also went to NCSA and we're also fan of yours" which I am. I mean since she was in Mad Men right.

A: Yeah, yes.

Matt: And she was in True Blood.

A: Yeah.

Matt: And then of course the delightfully cheesy but strangely addictive movies. The singing movies.

A: What, Pitch Perfect?

Mel: Pitch Perfect, yeah.

Matt: Pitch Perfect, thank you. [laughs] Yeah.

A: It's probably the thing she's best known for.

Matt: I think so.

A: I don't watch those cuz I don't like watching people sing [laughter]

Matt: In movies or just in general? [laughter] [unintelligible crosstalk]

A: No, I just don't, I just haven't gotten around to watching them, but yeah that's pretty, that was pretty exciting.

Matt: I know! I know and she really was sweet and she wrote back and so...

A: Oh did she!

Matt: ...we're gonna try to, yeah! Like instantly. So, I was like oh! Yeah, she wrote back instantly and I said, "well, you know we're hoping to play New York so I'll keep you posted" and I don't, I actually don't know whether she still, whether she's living in New York right now or not. But I said, "I'd love you to come to the show on us" and she said, "Oh it'd be great! Sounds great!" so.

A: That's be good.

Matt: And then some butterfly emoji 🦋 So.

A: Oh! Butterfly!

Matt: Yeah, butterfly emoji. Yeah, we're going to be best friends. [laughter]

A: Well, I think you might have some competition with Alison for being...

Matt: [laughs] Yes. Right, no, yes Alison has to be the best best friend and we'll just be lunch pals, maybe.

A: You're gonna work it out.

Matt: We'll work it all out.

A: This is very silly but my mother wanted to know after I think I'd, I don't know why I mentioned this but, I think I mentioned that you eat a lot of apples.

Matt: Wait, what? Your mother knew that?

A: Yeah, I think Lindsay mentioned that you eat a lot of apples

Matt: I do.

A: And I don't know why I told my mother that. Maybe cuz she accidently ordered like a huge bag of apples. My mother wanted to know what your favorite varietal of apple was.

Matt: Well, that's a good question. So, it was definitely Honeycrisp.

A: Ok.

Matt: Because, but then they became incredibly overpriced. And then they've gone down in price but they've gone down in quality, kind of like the whole doodle thing [laughs] the whole, you know, where they're over bred and therefore inferior animal [laughs] goldendoodles and such. Which happens to a lot of animals. I think it's happening to honeycrisp. So there are also the kanji, kanji? Apple or is it, there's a few sort of Japanese sounding names that I really like.

A: There's fuji, there's the fuji apple. Those are...

Matt: I like a good fuji, I like a good gala but these are like--is it kanzi?

A: Maybe.

Matt: I don't know. It's an apple that I've been eating. Oh yeah! K-A-N-Z-I, that's a good one.

A: K-A-N-Z-I?

Matt: Uh huh. And there's another one. So what I'm guessing is that there's like, they're trying to sort of come up with the new honeycrisp, right? Cuz that was so hot. [laughter] Honeycrisp is so hot right now.

A: So hot right now!

Matt: So hot right now. [laughter] Yeah, but I really do eat an apple pretty much every single day. Lindsay thought it was a, she thought that I was just trying to prove a point because, oh ok, I'll tell you this story. So, I've had a very difficult time falling in love with Chicago. And I don't think I ever, I don't think I really have honestly. It's not, I love people here, I love a lot of things about it. I love that there 250 theaters at any given moment but Chicago itself has never like truly won my heart. But there's some things that the Midwest does better than anyone else. And the fall, the season Autumn is definitely one of the best things that the Midwest does. I love it and we like to go apple picking. And so the first time we went apple picking, where you could basically just go into this field and just you know, fill a bag and they're super cheap. Lindsay was like, "you're not gonna eat all those, why are you getting so many?" And I said, "oh, I'm going to eat them all." And she thought that I was just kind of being a punk and and trying to prove a point. But not only did I eat all of those apples, one a day, it just, it kind of, you know, triggered this thing in me that I just have always loved apples. And so now I pretty much eat an apple a day ever since.

A: Nice.

Matt: It's not a bad thing!

Mel: Now does an apple a day really keep the doctor away? [laughs]

Matt: I mean, so far for the most point. My check-ups are pretty good. I don't know that I can completely give an apple all of the credit but it feels right. [laughs]

Mel: It feels right. [laughs] Good! Good!

A: Well, relatedly though I've been told that you are big on olives.

Matt: I do love olives. Yeah.

A: You have opinions about olives.

Matt: I do. I have very strong opinions about olives and the people that like olives and the people who don't like olives.

A: Now I've come to like them with Blue Apron. I've done Blue Apron for a couple years now and they send us like kalamata or how ever you say it, or castelvetrano. And they've been really good! But I don't really like them before because I don't like plain, black olives that much.

Matt: Well, the problem with people first experience with olives is they're usually like either soggy, in a jar, are too salty, really briny, kind of gross. But if you really get into olives and like find ones that aren't really briny and find ones that are you know, I don't mean to sound gross, but like meaty. [laughter] Wow, but I don't think that you can help but love olives. I love olives in bread, I love olives with cheese, I love olives. And so, I started [laughs] I have this theory that people who just inherently liked olives were very sexy, more sensual. They really were comfortable with their with their sexuality and the feelings. [laughs] And I actually, I still kind of stand by, though I have amended it to I do feel like there is an olive for every single person, they just have to keep trying.

A: Ok.

Matt: It's just such a violent, just camps. It's like Republicans and Democrats at this point. It's like there's no middle ground. There's no--I haven't met anybody that's like, "Oh well, yeah, I kinda like olives." It's just, I feel like you either like them or don't. But I do think that if you find the right one then you can and therefore you're kinda opening up your [laughs] your sexual nature into the universe. [laughs]

A: Ok, ok.

Matt: I think they make you sexier. I think eating olives makes you, make you sexier.

A: But like at the store they have like individual little plastic bowls that you can take as like a snack where you just eat olives and I was like, oh my god! That's horrifying! So you, like, eat olives by themselves?

Matt: Oh yeah! Absolutely.

A: Really. So you would eat one of those snack packs.

Matt: Well, I go to the olive bar. Have you...

A: Oh, okay.

Matt: Do you, have you been to an olive bar?

A: Oh I've seen an olive bar.

Matt: Yeah, so an olive bar and they have the different...

A: Oh so you're fancy. You don't want pre-packaged little...

Matt: No. See that's what I'm saying. You really, you have to go, that stuff is like Old El Paso you know, to a real Mexican dinner. You like, you gotta go to an olive bar. You want to start with something like a cerignola, like a big and they have green ones and red ones and black ones and they're usually very lightly brined, just a little salty but not too much. And then you know you want to have ones that are like pitted, you don't, meaning you want the pit in them. You want to like, sit down and like try, like really try them. Get some wine, get some cheese, get some bread for sure. And just, yeah, try to eat them as plain and natural as they can be. And I think that changes everything, I really do.

A: Okay!

Matt: Give it a shot.

A: Well, I might well do that. I've always been sort of suspicious of the olive bar at my grocery store cuz you don't know how long everything's been sitting out.

Matt: Well...

Mel: See, I had no idea there were olive bars. [laughs]

A: They don't have olive bars in the upstate! [laughter]

Mel: I'm one of those people who hates olives, so...

A: Oh no!

Matt: Sorry, sorry, I don't mean to offend. [laughter]

Mel: I think the only good olive is one that has been made into olive oil, so.

Matt: Sure, sure.

A: I do like olive oil.

Matt: Exactly.

Mel: But maybe if I go to an olive bar and try olives [laughter] as they were meant to be!

Matt: Yeah and in their pure form. And again like the cerignola is one that is usually sort of a gateway olive [laughter] because it, again, it's--I think the thing that drives, that, because people also hate pickles, right? Usually people who...

A: I used to hate pickles.

Matt: Who don't like pickles don't the like olives either. Because olives are just like pickley!

Mel: Yep, yep, I don't like pickles either!

Matt: Right, right! So, you kind of have to remove the concept of the brine. That's what people don't really like. And see, you kind of have to, if you kind of find the right brine and to me something that is not super tart or vinegary like it becomes more like a fruit honestly. Like an apple, not sweet but that kind of the same kind of idea.

A: Well some of the olives are pretty sweet. Like, I just realized the one that I like is nicoise because we make some pretty good sauces with Blue Apron. They're not really a sauce but like a, watch you call it, a tapenade with chopped nicoise, which I liked a lot. I don't think I really like the the plain regular green or black olives like you put on pizza or maybe in a salad. I don't really seem to like those.

Matt: Right.

A: But the nicoise and the castelvetrano or however you say it.

Matt: Yeah, right, yeah. Castelvetrano?

A: I think so.

Matt: Something like that? Those are pretty, those are very very mildly, like you said, kind of sweet and they're not, they're never really like put into a super sharp and tangy brine.

A: Yes.

Matt: Super salty. They're very kind of light and then yeah the cerignola and then you know, yeah, I mean you kinda have to work your way up to the ones like, there's like an alfonso and those tend to be really salty, really briny. Yeah but I think there's an olive for everybody, I do.

A: Okay

Matt: I believe. I believe in the world. [laughter]

A: Believe you all will find your olive [laughs] that will unlock your sexuality.

Matt: Yeah! It works!

A: I have kind of a stupid [laughs]

Matt: [laughs] yes?

A: I had a stupid question where I was, this is something that someone wondered on the quote pages a long time ago. They said, "I wonder if they ever walk away and go 'why'd I say that?'" [laughs] In the text of after shows cuz I always do that. I don't like remembering every stupid thing I've ever said and I think Melanie's said that she remembers everything, every stupid thing she's ever said.

Matt: You mean on stage?

A: Afterward. After the show.

Matt: So, yeah, so after.

A: When you're talking to someone--if I'm talking to one of you guys and I say something stupid I remember it for the rest of my life. [laughter]

Matt: I'm sorry! But you're talking about like something that we say in public on stage and then walk off safe and go why did I say?

A: Well, that too. That too, but I mean, like...

Matt: Oh, just to a...

A: talking to people after the show, if you're talking to the fans after show if you ever say something.

Matt: Ok.

A: I mean maybe you all don't say anything dumb to people after the show, I don't know.

Matt: Oh, I'm sure I've said plenty of dumb things. I don't really get worked up about it.

A: You don't really do that, ok, so you don't.

Matt: I'm mean I...

A: It's just always something I've sort of wondered, since I do.

Matt: No. I don't think it's a dumb question and I don't think, yeah. I mean I'm sure I've put my foot in my mouth plenty of times but...

A: It's tricky because you're talking to so many people.

Matt: Yeah.

A: You can't really get hung up on "oh, I can't believe I said such-and-such" you probably won't even, in the first place you might not really even say something like that cuz you're more adept at--it's a different situation. You guys are talking to a lot of people and we're just [laughs] we're just talking to you.

Matt: Right, you're just talking to me. [laughter] I have become adept at...

A: Yes!

Matt: but I am a good listener and I, that's pretty genuine and I do care. I'm genuinely interested.

A: Right.

Matt: Yeah, but I am in general a pretty non-confrontational dude so even if I ever get annoyed or angry and I won't, you know, I wouldn't say "get the fuck out of here" or something. [laughter] I only do that to my best friends. [laughter] Yeah I feel like there's things I've said on stage that I'm like "oh, what the hell did I" and certainly there's things that Jay has said that I'm like "what the hell?" [laughter]

A: Yeah, I've heard a lot of those.

Matt: Yeah, that would be a pretty good book eventually. And it seems to happen so much when he's talking to or about his parents. Like he'll say something super, super sweet and then it's like he said something really sweet and really heartfelt, he'll like tear up and instantly say something really horrible. [laughter] Just like hand in hand. We laugh about it, I mean it's, I don't know why. He didn't do it this time in Chapel Hill, though. He said genuinely sweet things and I don't think he put a little zinger at the end like he usually does, but usually he does little weird thing...

A: Yeah, he said something. He said something like "old age is wasted on the young but not for you." He was saying that to his dad. It was something like that, because I wrote that, I have pages. It was like, or something, it was either weird or it didn't make any sense. [laughs]

Matt: Well that, yeah, I guess I could, that's...yeah. [laughs] That's true.

A: But does he ever look back and go "why did I do that?"

Matt: Yeah. He does, he does. Constantly, constantly.

A: Okay.

Matt: I mean he does that all the time. I mean, like I said, he's, he'll talk or say "I wonder how long it's going to take for me to talk about death or free will" or something, you know? He's very, he's aware. He's not, he's aware. So it becomes funny.

A: Yeah, now you know that if I say something dumb I remember it for 20 years. [laughs]

Matt: Right. Yes, well I'm sorry, Anne, and I don't want you go through that. I mean, here's the thing, I think there are people who have the ability to do small talk

A: Yeah

Matt: And people who don't. I don't think that people who are good at small talk are less sincere, honestly.

A: Right. Right.

Matt: I really don't. Like I can get deep with you, in fact I really prefer it but I can totally keep it easy. I can have plenty of conversation. I think there's this nice balance where you kinda push it a little bit. Southerners do that so well and I miss that so much in the midwest. Midwesterners in general are really genuinely kind and helpful but they're so sort of stoic. They're not, you have to really earn their trust. I mean you kind of have to, they don't mind keeping it small talk, they don't. There's not, they're not super gabby. They're not super like, they don't necessarily talk about you behind your back so it's not, so they're not you know, they can keep it light. And the relationships I feel like that I've made in the midwest or that I see other people having it, compared to like a sit on your porch and talk about the universe kind of thing that us southerners seem to do.

A: Yeah.

Matt: And I think part of that is that midwesterners vanish for an entire season. You have to. You have to like hole up and you just don't see as many people. So it's also a protective kind of thing but, anyway. I get into trouble with that theory all the time. [laughs] But to me it feels like southerners can do that better. They can kind of ride the edge of full superficial small talk and kind of curveball into "well, how are you? But how are you really?" You know, and kind of get there.

A: Yes. Yes, they can.

Matt: Which I really love. I miss that a lot. I miss kooks. I miss going to a random like 7-Eleven and have the person like ask, truly ask about my day and like not have anything else to do just want to talk about things.

A: And they don't do that there.

Matt: Not as much and not as much, of course it could also be big city but I think in general it's not as necessary you know.

A: Yeah.

Matt: There's more to do and there's things to do and there's more people. But I do know that it drives Lindsay, she does not like that when we're in the South.

A: Oh yeah?

Matt: She's not crazy about people talking to you that don't know you. [laughs] She's not as much into small talk as I am.

A: It's like here people, you know the waitress you've never seen before will call you "hon" or "sweety". "Do you want honey with the biscuit sweety?" You know, that sort of thing.

Matt: I love it. I love it.

A: Which would be bizarre in other places!

Matt: Yeah.

A: Like when I was in Austria everyone in Austria was pretty, "we're doing what we're here to do," we're not going to make a bunch of, we're not going to smile at people.

Matt: Right.

A: Which was interesting. You know everyone was just going about their business. They're not smiling at strangers which is ok with me cuz I can never flash back a smile. It's just interesting being in different places and seeing what's normal here and what's not.

Matt: Yeah. It really is.

A: I think that was the last of my dumb questions. [laughter] Oh no! I was actually curious, and you might have seen and you might not, but I wanted to know if you'd seen the movie I Want to Hold Your Hand. The Robert Zemeckis movie from 1978.

Matt: I don't think so.

A: Had you ever heard of it?

Matt: No, well I don't think so. What is, what's story?

A: It's about 4 girls that want to get into the Ed Sullivan taping of The Beatles in 1964.

Matt: Oh!

A: It's like a slapstick comedy from 1978.

Matt: No. I've not seen that.

A: I was curious whether you had.

Matt: Should I see it?

A: I think so. What do you think Melanie?

Mel: Yeah, you should see it. [laughter] It's very good.

Matt: Ok.

A: [laughs] Is it very good or is it just funny?

Mel: Well, I like it! [laughs]

A: Yeah, you're a bigger Beatles fan...

Mel: I like, yeah.

A: I mean I bought, ok, I bought the Criterion Collection edition, so. [laughs]

Matt: Uh huh, nice!

A: I like it enough to have bought it. But it always strikes me as very funny, very apt in many ways so I'd be interested to know what your reaction is to it.

Matt: Yeah. I, ok, I will check it out. We'll have a part 2 where we discuss.

A: Can we have a movie club about this particular movie. [laughter]

Matt: I see, I will say this that I don't know the movie but I'm assuming that the concept is sort of a foray into fandom.

A: Yes.

Matt: I don't, I've never been a fan like that.

A: Yeah.

Matt: I certainly have, probably again it's because I'm constantly trying to do new things. It's not that I'm not loyal, I really am. Again like, I haven't loved U2 albums in a while but I love the band forever. I'm never gonna not, you know.

A: Well I don't think you're alone in that.

Matt: Yeah. Yeah. But I have never, I have also never experienced the level of fandom that I know some of our fans do. And it's fascinating to me. Like posters on walls or yeah, I just, I never have. I guess Radiohead is the most but that's, but even that is like not...

A: Yeah, there's probably not a level of engagement with Radiohead.

Matt: Yeah. [laughter] That too, but you know I find it all really, really fascinating. Really, really interesting to me but it is something I can't relate. And I'm not trying to be cool either I just something, I just have never really experienced that. Like, you know even Lindsay was obsessed with Leo DiCaprio when she was little.

A: Oh really?

Matt: Yeah, yeah. And I just don't, I've never been that. I've never been a part of a forum. I've never been, except for the one that we created and I love that but I don't really like have a drive to go up and talk to anybody, you know, a celebrity that I see. Especially in some ways because I know that their time is precious and lots of people walk up to them and want to talk to them and stuff. Which is probably my, you know, I should be more interested in that. I should do that more. But yeah, it's...

A: It's hard to explain to people.

Matt: It's hard to what?

A: It's hard to explain if you're not really in it.

Matt: Yeah.

A: But I could.

Matt: And I, yeah, and I, well, I love this podcast for that reason but I can't listen to all the podcast. Does that make sense?

A: Yeah.

Matt: Like I can listen to bits and pieces of it and I really enjoy it. I love, it's so amazing to me like it's very interesting, but then I start to get embarrassed [laughter] not for you guys, for just for the you know, just the, because it's so personal. And I don't have that, I don't have that.

A: Yes. Yeah, well I'm embarrassed too but anyway. [laughs]

Matt: No, you shouldn't be! You shouldn't be embarrassed! That's my point is you shouldn't be embarrassed in any way because you...

A: Ok.

Matt: You're experiencing something that I just don't have and I kind of wish I did. But I never have and I guess I won't, you know. That kind of level of, you know, thought and involvement and stuff about, you know. I mean, we have a relationship! I feel like I have a relationship with everybody and there are times where I want to talk to people in the way that I would talk to my brother, right? Just with that kind of ease.

A: Right.

Matt: But it doesn't always work out that way. And you guys notice things about this band and the history of this band I will never notice, which is unbelievable, right?

A: Yeah!

Matt: Because it's being filtered through your experience which in some ways is far more powerful than my experience. Because like as we've mentioned before I was not as willing to open this chapter again because it didn't, it was a job. It was a joyful job and a part of my life and it had meant a lot of things to me but when people tell me you know when you talk about your dad and when, I met somebody to this weekend who said that I was one of the few men that inspired her her desire to come out of the closet [laughs] which was just like, I, it's so important to me. But I don't understand it either cuz I'm just like a dude. I wake up in the morning and you know I don't, yeah, I'm starting to sound weird but you know what I'm saying, I hope.

A: No, I think it's perfectly appropriate because I think of the fandom as our thing.

Matt: Yes! Yes!

A: I don't expect you guys to understand it.

Matt: Exactly.

A: I don't even expect you guys to try to understand it or even really get involved! [laughs]

Matt: Right. I get it! I get it!

A: Which may sound weird, but.

Matt: No! No, no, no I don't think it's weird at all.

A: Ok.

Matt: I think that, I think it is necessary for the band members to ride a balance of that. That's why I feel both comfortable and, in my honesty, saying that I don't, I can't listen to every minute of y'all's podcast.

A: But you shouldn't! [laughter]

Matt: Exactly.

A: Do you agree, Melanie? [laughs]

Matt: But there's part of it--right! But there's part of it that I shouldn't but I also appreciate it so much. I appreciate the concept of it and it's so, because it isn't mine. It isn't me. And it isn't my thing. It's yours and you should, you know, fans should have the freedom and the and the will to say and do anything. So when you say that you feel embarrassed about things that you say afterwards for a long time I think it's, I don't want you to! Because you should be able to relate to the human experience in like any single way that you that you want to. And like if you-- I don't think you should be embarrassed about anything.

A: okay!

Matt: Yeah.

A: Okay, I'll take that but well you know we are planning to, you know it's not just going to be about--there are certain topics we wanted to go ahead and cover and we're looking at stuff that is going to be going as even as deep as you know, religion; how does religion relate to fandom.

Matt: Yeah.

A: Not to say that fandoms are a replacement for religion or anything like that but there's certain elements and we're going to try to talk about that in as subtle and as layered a way as possible. So it's probably gonna get fairly deep because I think Melanie said once, she thinks of fandom as sort of a sacred experience.

Matt: Sure.

A: And there was a Nick Cave quote where he felt that the symbiosis between fan and audience has sort of become a special or sacred space and I also think it's, even in that light, I think it's still appropriate to sort of be like, well the people that are, that have the fans aren't necessarily going to understand what it's like to be those fans. And I think that's fine. It's always fascinated me and I always think there's a lot to talk about, and one of the questions we might never actually answer but we still need to sort of discuss.

Matt: I love that.

A: It is a weird space to be in.

Matt: It's very weird. I mean how different in some ways, and I'm definitely going to get in trouble with this, but how different is any kind of gathering that has I mean the religious experiences quote unquote that I've had in my lifetime have pretty much all been on stage. Where I, you know, what people describe as being sort of an out of body thing where there's a connection and a feeling and like a we're all there together. You know religion is really, no matter what is talked about, it is a community. Period.

A: Yes, yes.

Matt: Period. Like there's, you know, I could have a religion of one yeah but that's not really, that's just spirituality. That's not religion.

A: Yes.

Matt: Religion is a community and so I don't, in a lot of ways I don't see any difference. Well, ok, I feel like there are a lot of similarities between a church and a rock concert...

A: Yes, yes.

Matt: And a play and it's human beings in the same room communing, having experience that is shared.

A: That bonding. It's that bonding.

Matt: Mmhmm.

A: Yes. And that feeling of the audience bonding with each other is really I think the key thing here. And that's probably the cornerstone of why we have this.

Matt: Yep.

A: Cuz that's always fascinated me. Like there's people I've known for 20 years and we know what the other person is thinking. You know we see each, I saw Rachel after like ten years and it was like we'd seen each other the day before.

Matt: Yeah.

A: It's just wild.

Matt: It is. That's the main thing that we have learned since 2015 is that it is much, much, much bigger than us.

A: Yeah.

Matt: Like it's not. And that's humbling and that's, you know, we're not even, we're not a household name by any stretch of the imagination. But just that, just the relatively tiny community that we do have is, that's just amazing! Like you lived, you were Jump fans when we weren't a band [laughs]

A: Yeah.

Matt: and you're still Jump fans. And it that's way bigger and way more important than any, I feel like, anything we do. Of course. Even though you meet because of music, maybe you meet because of stage performance but you take those connections out into the world and they become bigger and...

A: Yeah, there's people who move because they get an opportunity.

Matt: Yeah.

A: They get jobs. People get married.

Matt: Married, yep.

A: There's all kinds of things. The stuff we were talking about earlier with people getting started a different creative endeavors.

Matt: Yeah.

A: Yeah, I mean it's just massive in its way. But at the same time it's our own insular community.

Matt: I like that. I'll definitely listen to the religion episode.

A: Yeah, I think that's coming, that's gonna be in July.

Matt: Ok.

A: I think that's when we're doing that one.

Matt: Cool, cool.

A: Okay, let's see. We're coming up on one o'clock Eastern time so I don't know if anyone--do you have any questions for us? [laughter] It's like the end of a job interview. [laughs] "Do you have any questions" [laughs]

Matt: I feel like haven't given Melanie that much chance to just talk, but.

A: I told her to talk! And she hasn't talked.

Mel: I'm not a talker. [laughs]

Matt: You don't have to be a talker!

Mel: I'm a better listener. [laughs]

A: Melanie's mostly on this podcast...

Matt: That's cool.

Mel: I'm just happy listening!

A: She's keeping me in line! [laughs]

Matt: Alright! Just making sure.

Mel: No, but I did wanna say that when I told my kids that I was going to be doing this today, and they're off seeing Detective Pikachu, so...

Matt: Oh cool! Hope it's good.

Mel: So my son was like, "who's Matt?" and I'm like, "you know we saw Jump, Little Children this past weeked and Matt is, he's the guy with the purple hair."

Matt: Uh huh

Mel: and he's like "Oh! The weird purple haired dude!"

Matt: Yeah! Yes.

Mel: And I was like, "I'm trying to think of questions to ask him for that" and he's like "well, you should ask him if he likes John Cena." [laughter] So! There is the question from my eight-year-old. [laughs]

Matt: Wow! That's random. I want to know how, what, why John Cena?

Mel: He's obsessed with John Cena and not because he's a wrestler.

Matt: Uh huh

Mel: But because of this sketch that him and Jimmy Fallon did on Jimmy Fallon's talk show.

Matt: Uh huh

Mel: So he's obsessed with that and he thinks John Cena is the funniest person alive.

A: From one sketch and not from his wrestling career?

Mel: From, yeah, yeah.

A: Ok. Sometimes you get obsessed with people for weird reasons! [laughter]

Matt: God, tell me, I mean for real! Tell me about it! I know nothing about John Cena as a wrestler, kinda like your son. The only real experience that I ever had is that he used to come on Talking Dead, the TV show that happens after The Walking Dead.

Mel: Ok.

Matt: He was on that show a lot and I did think it was very, very funny and he seems like a very intelligent fella. [laughter] I mean I don't, I guess I don't know enough about him to know whether I would be a fan or not. But yeah, I say two thumbs up for John Cena! He seems like he's got an ability to kind of laugh at himself and of course I admire everybody who is, who does like a million things at once.

A: So you're a thumbs up on John Cena in a general sense.

Matt: In a general sense, absolutely.

A: Ok.

Matt: I want to say something that's speaking of like the weird guy with purple hair, this is what, I probably have said this before but this is what Jonny's son Zeb said one night I guess like last December, yeah, December. He said [laughs] Zeb says, "don't take this the wrong way but if a stripper and a hippie had a child and that child was a musician and the musician had a baby with a crazy person the baby [laughter] the baby would be uncle Matty." [laughter] Oh my God I laughed so hard. I've like put that on my desktop.

A: Oh wow.

Matt: I just, any given moment I need to just, I just need to read that to feel grounded in my life.

A: [laughs] Oh my god.

Matt: I mean the combination of stripper hippie and then the child--there's like a whole like parentage! So it's like a full-on breeding of someone that eventually becomes me. I love it.

A: He put a lot of thought into that.

Matt: Yeah! He really did! He really did. Those kids, man. I will say this, Jump, Little Children kids are abnormally cool I think. I mean maybe I just don't, maybe I don't spend a lot of time with kids.

A: I know I don't! [laughs]

Matt: But they seem to be pretty amazing. All of 'em.

A: Yeah?

Matt: Yeah.

A: I still think it's weird that everybody has kids now.

Matt: Yeah.

A: And the, like people I saw 20 years ago at shows who I associate with college are like driving minivans and they have four kids. I'm like, ok. I guess that's what's happening! Guess we'll deal with it.

Matt: That's what happens. Yeah. [laughs]

A: It's just weird!

Matt: How is it weird though?

A: I don't know cuz it makes total sense! But to me it's like I've got to really accept this. I'm getting better at that but it's still strange. Cuz sometimes they look so much like they did in college I'm like, "why do you have four children?" [laughs]

Matt: Mmhmm. They do, they like sex! [laughter] They eat a lot of olives. [laughter] I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, it's kind of what happens. There were a lot of kids at Columbia this time. It was really fun. Really fun to see.

A: I'm probably weird in not dragging kids to a Jump show but I have no desire to that. So it's not happening.

Matt: Yeah, well, I mean you'd have to have them first, right?

A: Yeah, see that's the thing.

Matt: So you might change. I mean I'm with you, I don't have children so there's plenty of things I think, "well I would, how would that fit into my life?" but apparently every single time we call somebody for their birthday [laughs] every single time we've called somebody on their birthday it's Ward at the playground.

A: Yeah.

Matt: So it's Jonathan, Evan, Jay, myself, Ward, Simone, you know, and usually the other one. Like there's so, he just you know, you just, it is your life, right Melanie? It's your life.

Mel: Yeah.

Matt: It's just different. I have dogs. I'm not comparing dogs to children I'm just saying I didn't think that I would ever have dogs. So, here I am. They impact my life in a big way and children would do even more.

A: I have a cat and I can barely handle the emotional needs of my cat, so. [laughter] She gets very mad at me. It's a thing!

Matt: Yeah, oh yeah. Cats definitely get angry.

A: Okay so did we have anything else?

Mel: I don't.

A: [Don't] think I do. Let me look at the list.

Matt: I think this has been really great.

A: Yeah!

Matt: I love interviews like this. I always love your questions, Anne. I really it's fun. I mean, I just yeah, it's fascinating. I like it.

A: I just sort of wanted to be rather loose ended. You know I had some things I definitely wanted to know about and there's always things I want to discuss with you.

Matt: Yeah.

A: But I wanted to just sort of see where things went and sort of let you expound on stuff here and there rather than having a really strict answer this answer this. Cuz it's been awhile since I've formally interviewed anybody.

Matt: Sure! Yeah, well you're quite good at it. You're quite good.

A: Alright, thanks.

Matt: You've got the skill. Yeah. But yeah, keep 'em coming. Don't get, you know, we're here. We're here for you. I've enjoyed, I'm almost done editing one episode of Tea Time with Matt.

A: Oh yeah!

Matt: The vlog. So that's been really fun for me. It's the first one so I'm not going to be happy with it completely because that's just who I am. But I'm gonna go ahead and put it out there in the world.

A: That reminds me though, cuz I wanted to thank you for writing those back in the day because I went back recently and re-read them and I, you know, of course I liked them when they were submitted at the time. But looking back they're very interesting.

Matt: They're intense!

A: Yeah. Yeah, you were saying that we, or we or I had asked you, you know I took submissions from people, had asked you some pretty intense questions and yeah!

Matt: Yeah.

A: Pretty much, yeah. Some of them were very silly like [laughs] the platonic orgasms one.

Matt: Right [laughter]

A: That's probably my favorite one but the person that suggested that to me, boy, she was a handful. [laughter]

Matt: Yeah, no I like it. It's, you know, I'm always going to be more of an Amanda Palmer than a Michael Stipe I guess. Which is weird but I like, again...

A: What does that mean?

Matt: [?] Uh, sorry Amanda Palmer is an over-sharer.

A: Oh, ok.

Matt: I mean to the most literal, I'm not going to take photographs of myself naked or even put that on our Patreon. [laughs]

A: Well.

Matt: Oh, God, we totally joked like our joke was, when we were trying to figure out Patreon and we were kind of using her page as some kind of you know...

A: Jumping off...

Matt: Template, and yeah, and before I, and Alison was like oh and there's these things that, these sort of like quests. What are they called, like goals right? There's these goals and so I said Amanda Palmer's is if she reaches 500 people she'll play a song naked. And sure enough! [laughter] It's something exactly like. So I don't go that far. I don't go that far but I do, like I said, I do like to get to the nitty-gritty.

A: Yeah, I mean they were good. Some of them were a little bit more, a lot more serious.

Matt: Yeah. There are serious things that happen to bands.

A: Yeah.

Matt: [laughs] It's not all a big joke. [laughter] It's some real shit. Yeah.

A: Alright, I guess that's it!

Matt: Well, this has been a pleasure. I really, really enjoyed it. Yeah, well let's do this again sometime.

A: Alright. Thank you very much!

Matt: Course!

Mel: Yeah, thanks for doing this.

Matt: Yeah!

A: Enjoy the rest of your day. [laughs]

Matt: Thank you! Enjoy the rest of your day.

A: Ok!

Matt: I'll talk to you guys soon!

A: Alright!

All: Bye!

[The New York Dolls "Lonely Planet Boy" fades in, plays briefly, then fades out]